Freakonomics Discussion Notes for Section A

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Freakonomics Discussion Notes for Section A

May 4, 2010 (B day): Courtney
Incentives can cause big changes.
"Incentives are the cornerstone of modern life" ( Levitt, Dubner 11)
We are need change because of our struggling economy now--government was not the cause of crime rate falling. So what will really change it? Incentives, government, flukes...
Some incentives justify the morals, for example making people pay when they come late to pick up their children.

Writers are taking a good approach to the book (not a typical writing style):
University of Chicago: Stephen Levitt
Has written children's books and religion: Stephen J. Dubner

Cheating
Changing a trend trying to better the system gives another person an incentive to do something wrong...
Is cheating human nature? Depends on the person, incentives, needs. Human nature to think about it and be aware of the possible ways of cheating.
What incentives out way each other? Moral incentive not too, but social or economic incentives may out way morals.
Everyone's goal is for the kids to pass, but the reasons for their goal is different.

May 5, 2010 (C Day): Mary Gray

Connections
KKK is similar to modern day terrorism--threat of random terror is most effective incentive for humans
Smaller offices are more honorable than big ones similar to FA, still both are not perfect. Smaller bagel companies still had margin of stealing, similar to modern day FA

Passages
p. 56-Terrorism/KKK is the biggest incentive for people. Fear

  • White collar crime (small-scale, unimportant) is not detected, less emphasized because there is no obvious victim
  • What/who a person is stealing from matters
    • people are less likely to steal from a more defined, respected person or thing in their life (cash box, boss=less likely to steal from than coffee cup full of money, or the man who delivers bagels)
    • more incentives to steal something more valuable, something helpful to them
    Fear of bodily harm one of the greatest incentives
  • Outside events, nationally/globally/locally effect economics
    • 9/11 effects economy-->empathy decreases dishonorability in bagel buyers
    • Sniper effects economy--> incentive of FEAR to stay home, decrease in sales overall
  • Is mankind corrupt? Is it natural for people to lie/cheat/steal?
    • depends on INCENTIVE
    • global outside influences (see above)
  • What is the incentive of someone in the KKK?
    • Security
    • Manly men required to be independent-->seek community

May 6, 2010 (D day): Courtney

  • Fear is the biggest incentive for people.
  • Any expert can manipulate their client to put fear into their minds.
  • Are they jumping to a conclusion: Do all real estate agents try and fool you?
    • all economics are jumping to conclusion
    • they are just trying to connect different cases together
    • drawing a line between social trends and what actually happens
    • no real answer just an attempt at drawing conclusions
  • Essential Question:
    • New societies and social trends
    • changing the dynamic of society
  • Why was specific discrimination happen?
    • stereotypes
  • Teachers have a lot of information, teachers have personal incentives to withhold information.
    • threats
    • adults manipulate
  • KKK hoards information: FA student groups have exclusive groups
    • KKK: needs to take pride in it
    • SLC: needs to have fun for others
  • KKK now:
    • KKK.net
    • in Kentucky
    • dynamic has changed

May 7th, 2010 (E-Day): Daniel

Discusion director:
  1. Why did the people lie at the poles? When people are making a public choice people are going to judge your choice and like/not like you, therefore people want to act like they were going to be nice and not racist. It is not a coincidence that people lied about it because it has become in todays society a "bad thing"
  2. Why did they not earn that much money? Well, all the drug dealer foot soldiers have an incentive to keep working because they want to become that person on hte top eventually. they also want to become a drug person. they thought that they would never make it in normal society and therefore they thought the best they could do was this.
  3. Why did they provide money for the familes. They didnt want the families to be mad and they didnt want the familes to acuse them to the police and such. Why did the familes cope with just $3 an hour? Becuase they couldnt do anything about it. They felt the gang was their families too and they had understood that way of life for so long they couldnt have done anything differently.
  4. Have you every thought about the potential money in drug dealing. It was very interesting because the stereotype is that all drug dealers make ALOT of money and are rich, however, the reality is that some make a lot of money (like the board of directors for the gang in the book made $500,000) but most made less and $3 an hour (1/2 minimal wage!)
  5. How are they able to deal with that danger + the police? Wouldnt the families get mad at the gang? They had been brought up that way and they lived for so many years living like that and they got the feeling that the gang would be there for you because the families are "part of the gang" too.

May 8th (F-day): Mary Gray

  • Does the boss have to make more than his employees?
    • No-people aren't as connected, feel inferior
    • Yes-There's no incentive to work, there needs to be a distinction between who's boss
  • Align your personal incentives with a risky business like drug dealing. Why is it or isn't it worthwhile for you to (hypothetically) maintain such a risky lifestyle?
    • we have other options, there are better, safer, more opportunities
    • familial morals, social standards to uphold

  • Do you think allowing abortion should be taken as a cautionary measure to prevent crime?

  • Yes-people get abortion for a good reason. It benefits the woman, and the crime rate


  • No-other precautions can be taken to hinder moral incentives

  • Incentives of a person at the top differ from someone at the bottom

  • top-no risks, want to maintain low crime rate, peace
  • bottom-take risks, prove selves

Almost impossible for economists to make predictions-->so many potential options

Abortion ban in Romania-why did the kids protest rather than the parents? They wouldn't have been born had it not been for the ban...
  • The kids had been effected, the kids had grown up in the difficult overpopulated life

Crime rates low when imprisonment low--wrong! The more law enforcement, the less crime-e.g. more crime in the 60s because less law enforcement

Connections-People don't know as much about quality as they know about price--TVs, computers. This is why people were willing to buy crack, want something seemingly expensive and glamorous

What should we be doing Differently? - Meeting with Mrs. Kangas:
  • Essential Question: make sure you connect with your own thoughts
    • more origional
    • more thoughtful
  • summaries are great!!!


May 13, 2009 ( D day)-Courtney

How can intelligent people view the world so differently?
  • own beliefs
  • conventional wisdom
Do you believe that guns create less crime?
  • anyone should be able to get one
  • unfortunate that people use them for crime
  • trouble makers are getting them illegally anyways
Conventional Wisdom as children:
  • influenced our lives but they didn't really make us any safer
  • Now they are beginning to look and realize the true dangers: swimming pools must have fences around them because they are dangerous ( more dangerous than guns!)
hazard + outrage
  • depends on their anger
  • even if there is a low chance, if it's a big deal then you gain more outrage ( swimming pool creates less outrage, while guns gain more)

May 13, 2009 - Daniel

  1. how much do you think the economy plays into the students (black/white)
    1. All of the low income people go to the same school
    2. Usually more black or minorities. people who have a higher education is
    3. want better
    4. incentives from community to do better/worse in school
  2. how many black or other minority students do you know who have gone to college whom have had a very low probable exeptance? (does this reflect what the book is saying) not may in present time
    1. none are getting less education
      1. but none really rise above
    2. white children will have the same problems if they go to a "bad" school
  3. does the amount of books a family owns really affect the child academically
    1. not the amount of books
      1. if they never read they wont be as smart
      2. going to the library is just as good as the books at house
    2. if you have books in your house that means you have more money and academics are stressed more in the houshold and more educated
  4. how does the school affect the student and how does the parent affect the student?
    1. 1/2 comes from genetic makeup
    2. 1/2 comes from parents and community
      1. if your are smart and your wife/husband is smart you will probably going to have smart kids
  5. ECLS
    1. study school
    2. family relationships
    3. goes with the book hand in hand
  6. Top 10 names
    1. matched the book
  7. adoption rates
    1. 120,000 per year
      1. abroad adoptions
      2. because of legalization of abortion
    2. many people in US are affected by adoption
  8. disincentives
    1. some black people are forced to be "not smart" because gangs and stuff
      1. is it genetic?
    2. kids get hurt for getting A's
  9. what matters to get good education??

May 14, 2010 Mary Gray

1) Why do white and black children have such different names
  1. Super unique names
    1. Preserve culture, ethnicity; or
    2. Fitting in somewhere--incentive to fit in as the minority
    3. Appear smart, worldly
2) Do lower income sounding names have a disadvantage
  1. Looking at a resume, lower income sounding names identify selves more
  2. Asian sounding names-->math, can BENEFIT undeserving as well
3) Name misspelled, how do names predestine
  1. Uniqueness
  2. Signify low-education parents, presents a disadvantage
  3. Pronunciation matters more, first impression
    1. Interview might not effect, resume it might
4) Names: cause of economic disparity between blacks and whites, or reflection thereof
  1. Can't blame either side: continuing contributing factor
  2. Slavery gap in culture originates economic disparity
5) Accused of trying to cross the railroad tracks
  1. people accused of trying to act white
  2. vice versa
6) Connections to names
  1. 16/20 whitest girl names apparent at FA
  2. 7/20 whitest boy names
  3. 2/20 blackest girl names
  4. 0/20 blackest boy names


May 18, 2010
Courtney

We lock our doors or pull forward due to conventional wisdom. Assumptions.

Do you think some of the questions are boarder lining trivial?

· yes



· identifies little things that make people think more about big issues



· he would have less of a following with an opinion



· characteristics by putting criticism in his own book.



“Unwantedness leads to crime. Abortion leads to less unwantedness; abortion leads to less crime.”
· shows the simplicity of all his points

How are people able to overcome bad pasts ( beaten, ect..)?

· will



· determination



Why would you not give someone money (if they have nice headphones)?

· Not enough of an incentive to know that they may just spend it on junk



· Want to help with food and shelter not toys



Criticism:

· Obscure



· Random anything else could have been the same



· There will always be disagreement



· These things do not even matter



May 19th, 2010
Discusion:
  1. Why might the teachers and students of the college think of Steven Levitt as a failure who would not have any future at economics?
    1. He didnt put forth as much effort
    2. wasted time
    3. didnt do homework (researched random stuff)
  2. Do you guys think that Levitt is this "Con-Man" as discribed by his peers, including the man who worked with him on the essay about the drug dealers gang.
    1. really funny
    2. he does kind of "con" the reader into following his ideas
      1. reading his stuff and believing stuff
  3. Why were the Members of the Society of Fellows so impressed with Steven Levitt's interview? And why did he think he wasnt going to do well?
    1. He was really doing well in the interview because he sounded really smart because he ha read all the topics and knew all the stuff
    2. the fellows were really smart and so was he, but he taught himself how to be smart
  4. What are some incentives to get people to come and vote?
    1. did your country justice
    2. incentives
      1. your vote might actually make a difference
      2. food
        1. ice-cream
        2. starbucks
    3. "the our vote doesnt matter" is stupid
  • is it true that he is tricking people?
    • he is well supported
    • he isnt trying to con people
    • he is studying stuff that no one else really does that research
      • he goes into unchartered territory
  • Conventialal Wisdom
    • he uses it to make his points
  • is it help full to point out your own flaws?
    • realistic of conventianal
      • realistic to do it
      • but conventional because people usually dont point out there flaws

Friday (B) May 21, 2010

  • Difference between money lost on gift cards and money stolen by credit/debit fraud---
    • Justified not to use gift cards because they typically receivecd it as a gift (in your hands)
    • Fraud associates with incentive of fear (in hands of someone else)

  • What is YOUR incentive to vote?
    • Looked down upon if you don't vote
    • "Civic duty"--contribution to society
    • "Should be something everyone needs to do"

  • Why is it that a "radical overhaul of safety measures" are justified after an accident like Dale Earnheardts, but not after a child drowns in a swimming pool?
    • Crash is more threatening, nastier, more tragic than a swimming pool-->innocence associated with swimming pool
    • All about coverage-->nascar covered more than other motor sports

  • Comparing NASCAR cars to cars on the highway=nonparallel, can't really be aligned
  • NASCAR drivers two main goals: win race, not being killed
    • winning race is becoming more of an incentive because risk of being killed is lesser
  • Fear of being audited is incentive to pay taxes
    • Conventional wisdom
      • in reality, average person has about .12% chance of being audited
      • overestimation of the IRS- 1/5 of American taxes aren't paid each year
  • Alot of money/time/patience required to be safe--not enough incentive for average people to use NASCAR safety